From: RDBAILEY@aol.com
Subject: Artillery at the Battle of Gettysburg
I'm extremely interested in finding out more about the Artillery at the Battle of Gettysburg, but I'm having little sucess. Any suggestions? My Great Great Grandfather Louis Balko was with an Artillery unit which was comprised mostly, as I understand it, of German Imigrants. It appears to have been raised in Jamestown, NY. For his service he was given his citizenship and a land grant. Any info about this unit would be much appreciated. I do not know the unit number. And unless I'm not looking in the right areas the artillery part of the battle seems rather ignored in anything I've read about the battle.
From: Marc73@aol.com
Subject: RE:Artillery at Gettysburg
Greetings All,
Finally a topic I can contribute to. 3/12/96 RDBAILEY needed info on the artillery at GB and his GGGrandfathers NY artillery unit.
Most books on the battle of GB have micro stories on the action of artillery at GB, unless the book is strictley on the 20th Maine etc.
IMHO the AoP artillery at GB was one of its finest hours. By having the artillery brigades assigned to the corps instead of the divisions was a great improvement. Of course the assignment of artillery before and during the CW is a topic unto itself.
My favorite resources on artillery at GB and the CW are:
"Grape and Canister" history of AoP artillery by L. Vanloan Naisawald.
"Dairy of Battle" The journals of Col. Charles S. Waimwright Commander 1st Corp Artillery Brigade by Allen Nevin
"Gettysburg Campaign" by Edwin B. Coddington
"Double Canister at Ten Yards" by David Schultz artillery at GB & repulse of Picketts Charge
"The Man Behind the Guns" Bio of Gen'l Henry J. Hunt Artiilery Chief AoP also my personal hero by Edwin Longacre
"Gettysburg Culps Hill and Cemetery Hill" by Harry Pfanz
For the possible unit your GGG was in of German imigrants try the following:
1st NY Light Battery I
NY Light 13 Battery
1st NY Light Battery L&E
Marc Riddell
From: DPowell334@aol.com
Subject: Re: Artillery at the Battle of Gettysburg
In a message dated 96-03-12 16:57:34 EST,RD BAiley wrote:
I'm extremely interested in finding out more about the Artillery at the Battle of Gettysburg, but I'm having little sucess. Any suggestions? My Great Great Grandfather Louis Balko was with an Artillery unit which was comprised mostly, as I understand it, of German Imigrants. It appears to have been raised in Jamestown, NY. For his service he was given his citizenship and a land grant. Any info about this unit would be much appreciated. I do not know the unit number. And unless I'm not looking in the right areas the artillery part of the battle seems rather ignored in anything I've read about the battle.
It's hard to say anything without the unit ID. However, try Fairfax Downey's Book - THE GUNS AT GETTYSBURG - it's entirely about artillery at GB. I strongly urge to you find out possible units. Call the Jamestown Historical Society, who may be able to give you possible leads on units. It can really personalize the study of an event to know an ancestor was there, and to know what he faced...
Dave Powell
From: "John A. Leo" (johnleo@mail.erols.com)
Subject: RE: CANISTER ranges
I've had these fundamental questions for years, but whenever I get to GNMP, I'm so excited I forget to ask the following:
What was the effective range for single and double canister in 12lb Napolians?
What was the effective canister range for 3 inch ordiance guns and the 10 & 20 lb Parrrots?
Was there any difference in Canister reliablity between Federal and Confederate supplies?
What could go wrong or prove dangerous when using canisrter instead of shot or shells?
Thanks.
From: Marc73@aol.com
Subject: Re: Cannister Range
John,
The effective range of cannister was 400 yds and in. This range holds true as to the smoothbores and the rifled guns. The rifled guns were less effective with cannister since the rifling tended to skew the balls in a swirling pattern. The smoothbores were very very effective with cannister.
Union ammunition on a whole was more reliable than confederate. Both sides had trouble with fuses especially the south.
The one danger with cannister is the number 1 man did not always swap the barrel between shots and when the cannister and powder went into the tube it could explode before he was done. I have read at GB, the union tubes were so hot, they loaded the cannister and the number 3 man took his thumb off the event and the hot air rushing in would set of the charge without a primer.
I am an artillery reenactor and am always glad to answer artillery questions.
Marc Riddell
Cooper's Battery B 1st PA Light Artillery
From: John Kelly (jkelly@argo.net)
Subject: CANISTER
Pat Ellington states that the Napoleon 12-pdr bronze gun was not designed to fire canister. I would have guessed that it was especially designed for that purpose being a smooothbore. I also thought that all rifled cannon were certainly capable of firing canister, and that their designs took into account that use.
Regards,
Jack kelly
From: GaTechFan@aol.com
Subject: Re: RE: CANISTER ranges
400 yards or less seems to be the figure for effective canister range, although the Napolean, 3" Ordnance rifle, and Parrots were not specifically designed for canister use.
Ref: "Double Canister at Ten Yards" David Shultz 1995 Rank and File Publications pages 75-77
Pat Ellington
From: "John A. Leo" (johnleo@erols.com)
From: "Shawn C. Whitelock" (whishaw@lyco.lycoming.edu)
Subject: Little Round Top
Hello! This is my first message I have sent. I have monitored the discussions for sometime now. This past Saturday (4/13), I went to Gettysburg for the third time. I have a few questions and hopefully someone can answer for me.
1) How many cannons did the Union have on top of Little Round Top?
Were these cannons used during Pickett's attack?
2) I am aware that the Union forces had defensive positions on the top of LRT. However, Did the Union have defensive positions fortified by soldiers at the bottom of LTR that extended upward (what is now the road today)?
Shawn
Subject: Re: Little Round Top
acameron@tcac.com (Bill Cameron) says:
David Wieck wrote:
There were six Parrotts of Battery D, 5th U.S. Artillery on the crest of LRT. If they were not the first they were among the first to fire on Pickett's men. (OR XXVII, pt 2, p386).
David,
Agree that there were six Parrotts on LRT but in mentioning the firing on Pickett's men you might also want to mention that only two guns could be used. According to the battery commander, Lieut. Rittenhouse, the rest could not be "run out far enough to point them to the right".
Bill
DAVID and BILL,
I seem to recall that BILL is absolutely "on target" regading only two guns able to be turned to the right in order to fire to disrupt the virginians in the Charge If yoou've been to LRT, you can easily see that the rearward guns would have been firing over (or through) the two guns on the right in front of them. This would not have been polite.:-)
But I seem to recall that two or all the other four guns were used as Counter- Battery fire against some of the guns in the broad vicinity of the Peach Orchard during the cannonade and possibly into the first moments of the charge. I also seem to recall that one or even two confederate batteries were charged with silencing the Federal battery on LRT during the cannonade. Or was this just from the movie?
BTW, all the writings seem to indicaste that the two guns firing on the right and center of the charge (Picketts men), because of their position to enfilad the Virginian's line, did far more damage than one ight expect just two guns to inflcit. I think the two guns alternated between shell and even solid shot. A dozen and more casulties were absorbed by the Virginians per round on many occassions..
I don't recall a source about which Federal Battery initiated the fire on the charge, but given LRT's ability to see all over the field, I would suspect that they would have seen the Virginians forming and would natually attempt to disrupt them as soon as, or even before, they actually started moving.
Folks, Is my memory right on this or do I have to go hit the books? Is there a historian in the house?
John Leo
Hi John,
Hunt told Rittenhouse to hold his fire until the charge. Rittenhouse "hugged mother earth" during the first part of the cannonade. I should have also mentioned that Rittnehouse went to two guns when Picket's men "got a little more than half way to our lines". The inference is that there were more than two guns engaged prior to that point. Two Irishmen, Lieutenant Peeples and Sergeant Grady directed fire for the two pieces which were firing percussion shells. Rittenhouse wrote that he "opened on them with an oblique fire, and ended with a terrible enfilading fire."
However, I seem to remember that Warren was not as enthusiastic about the effects of Rittenhouse's guns but I can't seem to put my hands on the quote.
Bill
From: Martjim@aol.com
Subject: gibbs guns on LRT
there has been a lot of dicussion on hazlett's battery on 7/3....was gibbs battery syill in postion on the northern slope of LRT on 7/3? if so,.did gibbs's battery fire on 7/3 assault or were they postioned too low on the hill to have any effect?..
jim martin
From: MASpruill@aol.com
Subject: Re: gibbs guns on LRT
Jim,
Once again you have thrown out a good discussion question.
Gibbs in his report states that they worked the guns on July 3 - OR XXVII, Part I, p. 662. Question is who are they shooting at?
As you know the tree lines are different now than in 1863. Gibbs left section was at an elevation of about 600 feet. From here it might have been able to fire on the low open ridge (elevation about 560 feet) just north of the Spangler House. They might have fired into Picketts right flank as it crossed that area.
Gibbs left section might have been able to fire into part of Wilcox and Perry(Lang) Brigades when they also attacked.
And prehaps they fired counter-battery fire at the southern part of the Confederate artillery line during the pre-infantry attack bombardment.
Maybe you and I can spend some time this summer after tours taking a close look at this on the ground.
See you soon, Matt
From: Martjim@aol.com
Subject: Re: gibbs guns on LRT
hi matt
i've often wondered if gibbs did get some shots off at the very flank of picketts div...we always hear about hazlett's battery...gibbs's generally gets ignored..i often wonder why they never mention gibbs battery in conection with 7/2 as well.
sounds good on going down there this summer after some tours
jim
From: acameron@tcac.com (Bill Cameron)
From: Marc73@aol.com
Subject: RE:Artillery 3rd Day
Greetings all,
I will try to put in my two cents on the questions concerning federal artillery on the 3rd day. If someone else has already used the same sources I have, beg my forgiveness. Like Bob Lawerence I am also a CPA and our minds are still mushy.
My main source material is "Double Canister at Ten Yards" The Federal Artillery and the repulse of Pickett's Charge by David Schltz.
A questions was asked concerning the fire from LRT mainly Rittenhouse's battery and how effective it was.
Page 23 (during the cannonade)
Rittenhouse fired at will into the massed enemy guns, forcing more than one enemy battery to engage him instead of the II Corp lines.Schultz also states he enfiladed the Confederate infantry lying in the swales. His shells ricocheting and bounding down their lines, exploding with effect.
Page 41(The Charge)
Rittenhouse continued his enfilading fire from the "mountain" as it was referred to by a Confederate officer.As a result when the right flank of Pickett's line rose to their feet in the swale south of Spangler farm, at least 300 casualties stayed put.
Page 59(after the repulse)
Rittenhouse saw the new Confederate line across the Emmitsburg Road (Wilcox and Langs' brigades)and began firing on them. This line moved directly east and did not oblique left as the first line.The Federal cannons beginning at LRT left to right concentrated on the small grey line. Riteenhouse with 4, Ames with 6, Dow with 4, Sterling with 6, Cooper with 4, Rank with 2, Hart with 4, Phillips with 6, Thomas with 6, Daniels with 6, Fitzhugh's center section of 2, and Wheeler with 3. As they moved East towards Plum Run, the Confederates were torn into small bunches.
One question was also asked about Cowan's Battery canister fire hitting the Federal troops ahead of him. This was not uncommon ( read about Sharpsburg).
Page 57(During the charge)
As Cowan by prolonge pulled back into the crest betwen Fitzhugh and Burton, he fired case with fuses cut at 2 seconds, with many shells exploding prematurely over his line.Chaos reigned suprreme at the angle.
Hope this helps
Marc Riddell
Subject: RE:Artillery 3rd Day
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your great post. Here are some comments on your "two cents". Now we have four cents. :)
You wrote:
My main source material is"Double Canister at Ten Yards" The Federal Artillery and the repulse of Pickett's Charge by David Schltz.
My main source is Benjamin F. Rittenhouse, "The Battle of Gettysburg as Seen "GETTYSBURG PAPERS, Morningside, 1986.
A questions was asked concerning the fire from LRT mainly Rittenhouse's battery and how effective it was. Page 23 (during the cannonade) Rittenhouse fired at will into the massed enemy guns, forcing more than one enemy battery to engage him instead of the II Corp lines.
Rittenhouse does not mention any counter-battery fire, in fact, he wrote that he didn't fire until the "enemy's columns" appeared.
He wrote,
"General H.J. Hunt, informed me that the enemy were supposed to be getting ready for a charge on our center; that they would open the way for it with their artillery, and directed me not to return their fire, but to reserve my ammunition for the charge."
Rittenhouse continued,
"Before he had time to get away, the first shot was directed at Litle Round top, and the firing from their one hundred and fifty guns became general along their line."
He continued with,
"we hugged mother earth during that part of the cannonade, until the enemy's columns appeared, and then, from Little Round Top to Woodruff's battery on the right, seventy Union guns opened fire."
Rittenhouse appears to be talking about the Union artillery in general when he continues,
"As soon as the enemy appeared we opened with solid shot and shell, then case shot, then the infantry poured in volley after volley, and then came the rapid fire of the deadly canister, to be doubled as soon as they got within fifty yards of our line.
Schultz also states he enfiladed the Confederate infantry lying in the swales. His shells ricocheting and bounding down their lines, exploding with effect.
Lieut. Rittenhouse does not mention Confederate infantry lying in the swales.
Page 41(The Charge)
Rittenhouse continued his enfilading fire from the "mountain" as it was referred to by a Confederate officer.As a result when the right flank of Pickett's line rose to their feet in the swale south of Spangler farm, at least 300 casualties stayed put.
I assume Schultz's source for this is the Confederate writings and reports.
Page 59(after the repulse)
Rittenhouse saw the new Confederate line across the Emmitsburg Road (Wilcox and Langs' brigades)and began firing on them.
Rittenhouse wrote,
"I watched Picket's men advance, and opened on them with an oblique fire, and ended with a terible enfilading fire.
This line moved directly east and did not oblique left as the first line.The Federal cannons beginning at LRT left to right concentrated on the small grey line. Riteenhouse with 4...
Rittenhouse wrote,
"Lieutenant Peeples pointed the right piece, and Sergeant Grady the fifth piece, both splendid shots. When the enemy got a little more than half way to our lines, I could only use these two pieces, as the others could not be fun out far enough to point them to the right, but Peeples and Grady tried to make upp for the loss of the fire from the other guns. Many times a single percussion shell would cut out several files and then explode in their ranks, several times almost a company would disappear, as a shell would rip from the righ to the left among them. Evey shot pointed by these two men, seems to go where it was intended...",
Rittenhouse mentioned
"On the right of the battery, and a little below it, stood a group of officers and soldiers [aides and signalmen, awc], General Warren among them, watching the charge from the beginning to the end. Warren had the signalmen send a message to Meade that the Union artillery was doing "very little harm" and that they were accomplishing little more that "filling the valley with smoke". [Coddington, p. 498]
He was surely talking about the union artillery in general and not specifically Battery D.
Bill
From: rank@thirdwave.net (Richard Rollins)
Subject: Federal Artillery and Pickett's Charge
John, David & Bill have written questions and answers about Rittenhouse's battery & Pickett's Charge. You've touched on another of my little pet interests, etc. All the info you need is in David Shultz, "Double Canister at Ten Yards": The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett's Charge (Rank and File PUb., 1926 S. PCH #228, Redondo Beach, CA. 90277 $8 + $2 p/s. My theory is that Rittenhouse did little damage, that most of the time Confederate spoke of the guns on the mountain hitting them hard they were mistaken. First, they couldn't tell where the rounds were coming from, except that it was off to their right and rear. Second, their lines were difficult targets, a long way away and moving. Third, I've looked at everything I can find and have found no sign that any Confederate officer at a high level knew that McGilvery's line of some 49 guns was posted from where the PA monument is and going south some several hundred yards. On the other hand, if you walk Kemper's route you will see that they appear in view once you get to the Emmitsburg Road. Then read the reports agiain, both from Kemper's men and from the artillery commanders in McGilvery's line. Then go and see for yourself. >From their line the Codori Farm looks huge, and the Confed right wing would be just 300-350 yards off, a clear and easy shot. I think they did the damage, not Rittenhouse'es two guns. I've walked all along Seminary Ridge where the meeting took place(another long story) and there is only one spot where you can even see the top of the PA monument.
From: acameron@tcac.com (Bill Cameron)
Subject: Re: Federal Artillery and Pickett's Charge
rank@thirdwave.net (Richard Rollins) says:
John, David & Bill have written questions and answers about Rittenhouse's battery & Pickett's Charge. You've touched on another of my little pet interests, etc. All the info you need is in David Shultz, "Double Canister at Ten Yards": The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett's Charge (Rank and File PUb., 1926 S. PCH #228, Redondo Beach, CA. 90277 $8 + $2 p/s. My theory is that Rittenhouse did little damage, that most of the time Confederate spoke of the guns on the mountain hitting them hard they were mistaken. First, they couldn't tell where the rounds were coming from, except that it was off to their right and rear. Second, their lines were difficult targets, a long way away and moving. Third, I've looked at everything I can find and have found no sign that any Confederate officer at a high level knew that McGilvery's line of some 49 guns was posted from where the PA monument is and going south some several hundred yards. On the other hand, if you walk Kemper's route you will see that they appear in view once you get to the Emmitsburg Road. Then read the reports agiain, both from Kemper's men and form the artillery commanders in McGilvery's line. Then go and see for yourself. >From their line the Codori Farm looks huge, and the Confed right wing would be just 300-350 yards off, a clear and easy shot. I think they did the damage, not Rittenhouse'es two guns. I've walked all along Seminary Ridge where the meeting took place(another long story) and there is only one spot where you can even see the top of the PA monument .
Hi Richard,
I do not have a copy of Shultz's book and Marc didn't list Shultz's sources, however, I wonder about the book when Shultz stated that Rittenhouse's battery caused several Confederate batteries to fire toward LRT and not the 2nd Corps when Rittenhouse states that he was not engaged in firing during the cannonade until the Confederate infantry when they came out and became exposed. Shultz is clearly inferring that Rittenhouse was engaged in counter-battery fire. Rittenhouse inferred that he was eating dirt during this time. I also believe that there is a quote by Warren as to the ineffectiveness of Rittenhouse's guns but I can't seem to put my paws on it. Anyway, I agree that the Confederate authors seem to have overstated the effectiveness of Rittenhouse's guns and I'm mystified as to where Shultz came up with some of the stuff Marc quoted.
Bill
From: rank@thirdwave.net (Richard Rollins)
Subject: Rittenhouse vs. McGilvery
On 4.18 John Leo wrote:
The negative of your suggestion (that McGilvery's people, with 25 times as many guns, missed most of the time) does seem rather implausable. I think you may have provided us with a case where we have to choose between common sense and the writings whose accuracy we too often take for granted.
THANKS.
I didn't intend to infer that McGilvery's men missed most of the time. I wouldn't say that. My reading of the reports leads me to believe otherwise. Capt. Patrick Hart, for example, says: "While firing at the enemy's batteries I used solid shot and shell but when his infantry commenced to advance, I fired shell and shrapnel until the right of his first column came within about 500 yards of me, when I opened with canister, which took good effect. His second line [Wilcox & Lang] apeared to be coming direct for my battery. I turned all my guns on this line, every piece loaded with two canisters. I continued this dreadful fire on this line until there was not a man of them to be seen." (In -Pickett's charge: Eyewitness Accounts_ p. 213.)
I certainly agree with your second point. Thanks again.
From: lawrence (Dennis Lawrence)
Subject: JEB & ARTILLERY
Greetings,
Thanks to Jack for sending along JEB's order. I just posted it in the archives. I also scanned and posted Union artillery commander Henry Hunt's report on the artillery along the federal lines July 3rd to complement that discussion. This section details the positions of all the Union batteries on July 3, the pre-charge artillery barrage, and the artillery fire during the charge.
On the subject of whether Rittenhouse engaged in counter battery fire, here is what Hunt said:
"I had just finished my inspection, and was with Lieutenant Rittenhouse on the top of Round Top, when the enemy opened, at about 1 p. m. along his whole right, a furious cannonade on the left of our line. I estimated the number of his guns bearing on our west front at from one hundred to one hundred and twenty. I have since seen it stated by the enemy's correspondents that there were sixty guns from Longstreet's, and fifty-five from Hill's corps, making one hundred and fifteen in all. To oppose these we could not, from our restricted position, bring more than eighty to reply effectively. Our fire was well withheld until the first burst was over, excepting from the extreme right and left of our positions. It was then opened deliberately and with excellent effect"
I guess, like Stuart's Orders, you can read a lot of things into this passage, but it does appear to say that Rittenhouse - on the extreme left - was engaged in early fire at the Confederate batteries.
Bill, you say you are using _The Gettysburg Papers_- when did Rittenhouse make the address/article you refer to? (Brother Bob "borrowed" my copy several years ago. He digs out my book to refute my points!)
Take Care
Dennis
From: acameron@tcac.com (Bill Cameron)
Subject: Re: JEB & ARTILLERY
Hi Dennis,
You wrote:
On the subject of whether Rittenhouse engaged in counter battery fire, here is what Hunt said:
"I had just finished my inspection, and was with Lieutenant Rittenhouse on...
Rittenhouse made his address May 4, 1887. Here is what Hunt said in B&L:
"...Beginning on the right, I instructed the chiefs of artillery and battery commanders to withhold fire their fire for fifteen or twenty minutes after the cannonade commenced, then to concentrate their fire with all possible accuracy on those batteries which were most destructive to us - but slowly, so that when the enemy's ammunition was exhausted, we should have sufficient left to meet the assault. I had just given these orders to the last battery on Little Round Top, when the signal-gun was fired, and the enemy opened with all of his guns. From that point the scene was indescribably grand. All their batteries were soon covered with smoke, through which the flashes were incessant, whilst the air seemed filled with shells, whose sharp explosions, with the hurtling of their fragments, formed a running accompaniment to the deep roar of the guns..."
Several paragraphs later, talking about the assault, he continued,
"The steady fire from McGilvery and Rittenhouse, on their right, caused Pickett's men to drift in the opposite direction, so that the weight of the assault fell upon the positions occupied by Hazard's batteries."
Later he wrote,
" Soon after Pickett's repulse, Wilcox's, Wright's, and Perry's brigades were moved forward, but under the fire of the fresh batteries in Gibbon's front, of McGilvery's and Rittenhouse's guns and the advance of two regiments of Stannard's Vermont brigade, they soon fell back."
[Hunt, "The Third Day at Gettysburg", B&L, III, 372-5]
I got a nice note from Richard Rollins telling me that he is going to check with David Shultz the author of _"Double Canister at Ten Yards": The Federal Artillery and the Repulse of Pickett's Charge_ on these issues. Again, I don't have Mr. Shultz's book but it was interesting to contrast the specificity of Rittenhouse's account of "hugging mother earth" to the paragraphs quoted by Marc about Confederate batteries directing fire on LRT and not the 2nd Corps due to the fire of Rittenhouse's guns.
I'm sure Mr. Shultz can give us good cogent reasons for his conclusions. My humble opinion is that if Rittenhouse told a M.O.L.L.U.S. gathering that he didn't fire during the first part of the cannonade, he probably didn't. Not the kind of thing that one would make up. There is a certain amount of humility in a "old soldier" talking about dirt grabbing. If he wrote that he was standing on the rocks, waving his fist at them, I'd question it. Again, I haven't read the book, just Marc's quotes but it certainly seems to imply that he was engaged in early counter-battery fire. Only thing I know for sure is that I wasn't there. :)
Bill
From: lawrence (Dennis Lawrence)
Subject: Eagan -To The "Left"
>As Woodruff lay wounded in Ziegler's Grove he supposedly orders Eagan to the "left." Masterson's _Cushing of Gettysburg_ states that Eagan moved to a position behind the angle and fired into the area. He includes a map specifically showing this move.
However, Rollin's _Pickett's Charge_ shows the movement to be to the left, but not to the Angle.
The plaque at the park does not address this, and these are the only sources I have found that shows Eagan's movement. I always thought the movement described by Masterson a little too extreme. I think the latter is more likely, but I can't substantiate either with further sources.
On the subject of friendly fire into the angle, I think there at least two such incidents recorded in Rollins' _Pickett's Charge_, but Brother Jim still has my book and I can't be specific. I am interested in other sources.
Thanks,
Dennis
From: lawrence (Dennis Lawrence)
Subject: Rittenhouse
Bill wrote....
My humble opinion is that if Rittenhouse told a M.O.L.L.U.S. gathering that he didn't fire during the first part of the cannonade, he probably didn't. Not the kind of thing that one would make up. There is a certain amount of humility in a "old soldier" talking about dirt grabbing.
Hi Bill,
I don't at all want to imply that Rittenhouse made up anything - I was interested in the date of the speech - as you guessed - because of the passing of time factor and all that ensues with it.
Hunt was adamant about the batteries holding their fire during the Confederate barrage, and he wrote afterwards about it forEVER!! It would be entirely consistent that he - especially standing with Rittenhouse -would not want any fire from LRT at that time.
Still, Hunt had a hard time stopping counter fire - especially further north where Hancock held sway.
BTW, I added a link to the 154th site that Brenda Wells posted about from our "Field and Monument" file and "Other Gettysburg Web Site" file. It's a very well done site.
Thanks, Brenda!
Take Care
Dennis
From: acameron@tcac.com (Bill Cameron)
Subject: Re: Rittenhouse
Hi Dennis,
You wrote:
I don't at all want to imply that Rittenhouse made up anything - I was interested in the date of the speech - as you guessed - because of the passing of time factor and all that ensues with it.
I know you didn't and I didn't mean to infer that you did. I was just musing out loud.
BTW, here is some little known stuff on Rittenhouse (probably unknown since I'm the only person alive who reads this signal stuff :) ). It is from Capt. Pierce's report. Pierce was one of the signal officers on LRT at the time of Pickett's charge.
"Headquarters signal station was in plain sight all the time, and we could hence call it, but not without exposing the lives of our men to the deliberate aim of the enemy's sharpshooters, who, stationed behind rocks, in tops of trees. etc., fired with fatal effect upon all that showed themselves. They kept two guns of Hazlett's battery silent, except when worked by volunteers, and kept up a continual fire upon the rock, not ten feet square, occupied by us..."
Bill
From: Marc73@aol.com
Subject: RE:Rittenhouse Revisited
Greetings All,
Upon checking David Schultz's book, "Double Canister at 10 Yards", I could not find a cite for his conclusion that Rittenhouse was engaged in counter-battery fire on the 3rd day. Naturally, I started checking my other sources and found the following in "Grape and Canister" by L. VanLoan Naisawald.
Page 424 (After Gen'l Hunt left the new artillery reserve park at Beg. of Cannonade)
As Hunt trotted onto the ridge, Hazard's II Corps guns were in full fury, and some of Osborn's batteries on Cemetary Hill were adding their crashes to the interminable roar of battle. From their elevated position on Little Round Top, way to the left, Rittenhouse's long-range Parrott rifles had earlier began an annoying and damaging fire on the batteries of the Rebel's Washington Artillery battalion on the Emmitsburg Road.
His cite is as follows:
O.R., XXVII,1,p. 239; 2, p. 435. Hunt stated that the Federal guns on the extreme right and left of the line opened fire early in the action----presumably Osborn's and Rittenhouse's batteries.
The cite does not specifically state counter-battery was involved, but must be the author's conclusion.
Hopefully, someone will find something that will answer the counter-battery question.
Marc Riddell
From: Tom_Desjardin@nps.gov (Tom Desjardin)
Subject: Re: Little Round Top
Tom_Desjardin@nps.gov (Tom Desjardin) says:
Regarding Ah-tillery on LRT,
Actually, I would bet that the other battery on LRT had better angle and range on Pickett's men. Gibbs' Battery - L, 1st Ohio. It had six 12 pound Napoleans.
In Gibbs' Official Report he wrote: "On the 3d, we remained in the same position, occassionally working the battery." [Gburg. OR v.27, p. 662.]
BUT - Gibbs refers to "Weed's Hill" and "Little Round Top" names not given to the hill until well after the battle.
t.
From: Martjim@aol.com
Subject: Re: Little Round Top
In a message dated 96-04-22 14:01:09 EDT, you write:
Tom_Desjardin@nps.gov (Tom Desjardin) says:
Regarding Ah-tillery on LRT,
Actually, I would bet that the other battery on LRT had better angle and range on Pickett's men. Gibbs' Battery - L, 1st Ohio...
tom
thanks for your post on gibbs battery....matt spruill and i were both speculating here the other day on whether gibbs's battery would have had a clean shot at pickett's flank on 7/3...i have to think that this battery did get some shots off based on their positioning.
the difference in the height of the trees and the relatively hidden nature of the battery often precludes any discussion on their role in the battle vis-a-vis hazlett's.
jim martin, lbg
p.s my batchelder map also uses "weed's" hill for LRT
Steve:In Batchelder Papers, II, p.1024, LCOL Francis M. Cummins of the 124th NY said (in an 1884 letter to JBB) reports that the 124th NY retired (no direction given) taking two of Smith's guns with them. Are these the guns mentioned above, or are we talking about Smith's rearmost section firing down Plum Run Valley?
In the first instance, Smith's two guns with the 124th NY could have retreated through Rose's woods bordering the Wheatfield, but to take position on Winslow's right would have had to circle around Winslow to take position. I think this was highly unlikely.
The two guns firing down Plum Rum valley were positioned on the west side of Plum Run adjacent to the northernmost part of Rose's woods. To get to the Wheatfield was easy enough, just move to the west through the woods, but to get to the RIGHT of Winslow's position, they would have to travel behind Winslow and set up near the Stony Hill section of Rose's woods. I could see it if the section had set up to the left of Winslow, but I believe that Capt. Smith was not with this section, so could have erred in his description in his report.
Harry Pfanz in GETTYSBURG-THE SECOND DAY, p.263, writes about Winslow's battery:
"....The woods along the east side of the field contained a line of troops, perhaps on of Ward's regiments or the Fortieth New York. The line fronted away from his guns at a right angle to his gun line, and the enemy was pressing it back. As Winslow watched, the regiment retreated across his battery's front, and he was discouraged also to see a section of Smith's battery file past his left...."
Is this the Plum Run section, or the two guns being brought off by the 124th NY?
Shortly after the action described above, Winslow was forced to retreat in the face of firing from both the left and from very close the right (from the Stony Hill woods), so that it was unlikely that Smith's section was set up on Winslow's right or left at the time of Winslow's withdrawal. So, what was meant by Smith's statement?
Regards, Jack Kelly
Having said all that, I cannot imagine that Smith's remaining two guns would move west into the wheatfield before retiring to the north. Instead, these must be the section Winslow reported leaving on his left.
Dave Powell
"At this time the report of Hazlett's guns from the summit of Little Round Top annouces the arrival of assistance, none too soon, for Benning's brigade, after pushing through the gorge, is about to cross the "Valley of Death" to take possession of the goal for which he has been fighting for more than two hours. The race is a shapr one; the Federal win it. The two guns are run through the woods, and seeing Winslow's battery in position, I take position on his right just as he limbers up and retires.
Looking for the cause, I perceive the enemy swarming from the woods and I lose no time in falling back.
Before the crest (i.e. Houck's Ridge) was abandoned, one of the four guns, having been disabled, was withdrawn; this left but three and these were taken off by the enemy after dark.
.....After the ridge was under control of the Confederate infantry, the Federal infantry, which had formed the defense in this part of the line, instead of retirin gin the direction of Little Round Top, naturally fell back into the woods occupied by the balance of Ward's Brigade....
...{[On the night of the second day], the Battery was parked on the Baltimore pike. I sent to the Sixth Corps for a surgeon to care for the wounded. Early on the morning of the 3d I reported three guns for service and was assigned position in the second line near the Third Corps, but was not again engaged during the battle."
Stephen Haas
I would loved to have been with the Artillery on the third day, out in the middle of the field in order to watch the advance. I would have dropped the muzzles of those cannon about four inches and given that rock wall area a real bad time.
Ray
Hi Ray,
I really don't know if it would take one inch or four. I just thought it was an interesting "nit" and wondered about it. Maybe one of the reenactors might have an idea. As the distance to the target increases, so does the effect on any adjustments. There is a really neat piece in Gibbon's book about elevation of field pieces. In fact, Gibbon's artillery manual might hold the key to this piece of minutiae. Here is the Gibbon piece, I've always like it:
"In the midst of this pandemonium I happened to look at this gun and noticed that the cannoneers had carelessly allowed the elevating screw to run down and every time the piece was fired its elevation was increased until now its missiles were harmlessly thrown high over the heads of the enemy in its front. I yelled to the gunner to run up his elevating screw, but in the din he could not hear me. I jumped from my horse, rapidly ran up the elevating screw until the nozzle pointed almost into the ground in front and then nodded to the gunner to pull his lanyard. The discharge carried away most of the fence in front of it and produced great destruction in the enemy's ranks as did the subsequent dischardges..."
Like everyone else around here, I like Buford but there is a special place in my old sodier's heart for John Gibbon.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Just judging by windage and elevation :-) Since most of the shells went over the hill I was anticipating hitting the rock wall. I will take the inch though and run with it.
> Ray