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Last Updated 2/18/96
Good Day All,
As much as I like Chamberlain, I do think the 1st Minnesota, as proposed by Norm in an earlier post deserve some prime time. Norm had asked why is Chamberlain so heralded and deified, and the 1st seemingly ignored? IMHO, it's because for all intents and purposes, the 1st Minnesota ceased to exist after July 2nd. They literally gave their all to do their duty. Unlike Chamberlain who lived long after the war and could wax poetic about his own accomplishments, be interviewed, etc., no one, or at least no one with even half the literary prowess of a Chamberlain remained to tout the virtues of the 1st Minnesota.
Perhaps instead of comparing the accolades heaped upon an individual like Chamberlain, and the lack of those same accolades to the 1st Minn, maybe it is better, or more wise to compare the 1st to say the 54th Mass? Not to take anything away from their accomplishments, but if the 54th is worthy of such attention, and I loved Glory, the 1st Minnesota is equally deserving, if not more so. Without the heroics of the ist Minnesota on July 2nd, there may not have been a 54th Massachusetts?
Regards,
Jeff FioravantiM
(who lives in Mass. and really does like the 54th, but feels the 1st could use
a little spotlight that is long overdue)
>
>By the way: Why has there been so much chatter about Chamberlain in this
>group and so little about the 1st Minn.? It takes nothing away from
>Chamberlain to recognize that the 1st Minn.'s suicide attack was the
>equal in gallantry to anything in the war--and for once, it wasn't wasted
>gallantry.
>
>Any comments?
>
I think the easy answer to your question is "The Killer Angels".! I have a
late 1950s American Heritage and a copy of July 1963 issue of "The Cival War
Times Illustrated". Both cover the second day, both were issued before the
book and neither comments on 20th Maine.
Robert W Lawrence
For the 1st Minnesota fans:
I wholeheartedly agree with Norm's recent post regarding the heroism of the
1st Minn. Everytime I walk past the place on Cemetary Ridge where they made
their stand, I am in awe of thier courage. I recommend without
hesitation Richard Moe's book "The Last Full Measure" which is about the
1st Minn. The voices of the men (particularly the Taylor brothers), spoken
in many of the letters reproduced in the book, are full of intelligence and
life and it breaks your heart to read them because you know that most of them
will perish at Gettysburg.
Lisa Mucha
We all know of Joshua Chamberlain, Greene, Morrow, etc. but what about Dawes.
The commander of the 6th Wisconsin deserves more credit than Morrow or Greene,
while he does not exceed Chamberlain, he did do something like Chamberlain.
Rufus Dawes was a major at the outbreak of the Antietam Campaign, when the
colonel(I forget who)was mortally wounded at the Battle of South Mountain, he
assumed command of the 6th. He led it at Antietam, Fredricksburg,
Chanclersville and Gettysburg, and then for the rest of the war. He wrote a
book on his experinces SERVICE WITH THE SIXTH WISCONSIN. On the first day,
detached from the Iron Brigade, they held the center, connecting Cutler's and
Stone's brigades. With James Stewart's Battery B, 4th U.S Artillery.
Earlier, they attacked Davis's brigade posted in the railroad cut, in a
do-or-die charge. They captured many prisoner's and destroyed Davis's brigade
while suffering heavy casualties. Dawes's herioc action deserved the Medal of
Honor, yet he did not earn it. For the rest of the first day they were in
reseve behind Batt. B. These men surely proved that they were Men of Iron.
Although Dawes and the 6th Wisconsin did perform admirably on July 1 it was
basically all for naught given that Ewell would soon be bringing a fresh
Corp over Oak ridge.
Robert W Lawrence
For Timothy Tomsic:
Tim,
Bill
From: Pat GaTechFan@aol.com
Is anyone aware of a regimental history of the 18th Ga? They fought at
Gettysburg (Wofford, McLaws) and served the ANV well in its other campaigns.
Thanks.
Pat
From: "Douglas M Macomber"
I am an avid prusuer of Staanards brigade, paticulary the 16th Vermont under
Colonel Veazy. I recently found a brief history about the 16th, I did not know
Staanard and his brigade played such a major role on the third day.Until
Gettysburg, Staanard and his brigade assigned garrison duty at Washington D.C.
When Lee invaded Pennsylvainia, the brigade was attached to the first corps
under Reynolds. Staanards brigade arrived late in the first day, after Reynolds
was killed and all major actions on the first day were over. The 16th and the
rest of the brigade was posted on Culps hill. They saw no fighting on the
second dday, and on the third were detached to strengthen Hancocks second
corps.The 16th along with the 14th Vermont acted as the adavnce regiments
during Picketts charge. They withdrew and took part in Hancocks famous flanking
movement, soon afterward Hancock was wounded. Staanard bent over him saying "It
is not bleeding from the artery you will live."Thinking Staanard to be a
surgeon, Hancock replied "Thank you for that surgeon." After Gettysburg the
16th's enlistment was up and was discharged.
For further information on Vermonters duringthe civil war see FULL DUTY by
Edwin C. Bearss
I thought we might start another digest or disscusion, so my question is. What
regiment (CSA or USA)did more to decide the conflict at Gettysburg?
(If anybody even suggests the 20th Maine, I'm going to be sick.)
But for the Union I would have to say the 16th Vermont. They destroyed
Kemper's flank, besides Wilcox's brigade. They were forced marched all the way
from Virginia. 200 of them had picket duty outside of Hancock's line. They also
battled it out with McLaws on the second day.
I would say Archer's brigade(not really regiment)deciding to attack on the
first day.
From: "Tomsic, Timothy J."
In response to discussion on which unit most significantly affected
Gettysburg (Started by D. Macomber). There are several that come to mind.
The First Division Cavalry under General John Buford, with supporting
Commanders Gamble and Devin were in my opinion the most important. In
delaying the Rebs from entering Gettysburg and surrounding hills until Gen.
Reynolds arrived, Buford's division allowed the Feds the chance to armada
forces against their foe. I think the battle would have been in the reb's
favor if they were the ones that were parked out on the round tops, Culps
hills, and cemetery ridge when the Feds arrived.
The 1st Minnesota would have to be on everyones short list of significant
units. if not for there charge late on the second day there may not have
been a third day.
Robert W Lawrence
My vote goes to the First Minnesota. They stopped Cadmus Wilcox's Alabama
Brigade from reaching Cemetery Ridge on the evening of 2 July. Wilcox's
Confederates could have changed the course of the battle, if they had not
been stopped.
Bill Mankins
Can anyone help me out with info on operations of NJ Units? Not sure if
they were even at Gettysburg...
Scott Allen,
There is an old book called New Jersey Troops in the Gettysburg Campaign,
by Toombs (don't know the first name). I have seen copies for sale pretty
frequently, but cost is usually $85 - $150. You would be better to attempt
to obtain it from the library if you can find it.
N.J. had several regts at Gettysburg; the 12th N.J. fought right at the
Bryan barn near the angle and came under attack during Pickett's charge.
The 7th NJ was part of Sickles 3d Corps and has the large Granite Bullet
monument that is so neat looking near the Wheatfield. N.J. units also have
monuments along rock creek and in the valley of death.
Terry Moyer
Does anyone have references or resource information on the 13th
Alabama Infantry Regiment, Archer's Brigade, Heth's Division? I am
only interested in actions at Gettysburg. A relative of mine was Pvt
W.T. Castleberry who is believed to have been the colorbearer. Thanks
for any help.
Scott Lee
Scott Lee wrote:
General Archer's Great-grandson owns a Civil War bookstore in Knoxville, Tn.
Perhaps you could try him: From: Robert Nale (rsnale@digital-cafe.com) Hi - found your address on the web and send this to inquire about what is
going on with you and how to get involved. I am a graduate of Gettysburg
College (46) and the Seminary (49). I have learned that my grandfather -
Albert W. Nale - enlisted in the 36th Pa. Vol Militia in June, 1863 - answering
the call of Gov. Curtin for volunteers to defend the state. In his obituary,
it is noted that the 36th PVM was sent to G-burg after the battle to help clean
up the field. I would like to know if there is any literature available on
these PVM units. Albert W. Nale was discharged in August of '63, but enlisted
about a year later in the 205th PV and served in the IX Corp and the recapture
of Fort Stedman. I have purchased a brick to be placed in the G-burg square in
his memory. My father, Harry E. Nale, was a Marine and recalls hiking to G-burg
from Quantico, Va. with Gen Schmedley? Butler sometime in the 20's. I have a
photo of the two of them taken when Butler visited Altoona sometime in the
'30s. My father was an Altoona policemen at the time, but still managed to
squeeze into his old Marine uniform. I would appreciate any info you may have on
the PVM units and on the whats, whys and hows of your group. Thank you - Robert E. Nale From: CSVZ07A@prodigy.com ( TERRY MOYER) Robert Nale, The roster of the 36th Pa Militia is found in Bates' History of Penna
Volunteers, vol 5. p 1256-1259. The regiment was mustered in July 4, 1863,
discharged Aug. 11, 1863. Your grandfather belonged to Company H.
Interestingly, as I pored through the roster for this militia regt I found a
notation for 1 soldier in Co B. stating: died at Gettysburg Aug 2, 1863, a 2d
soldier in Co. B 'died at Gettysburg Aug 7, 1863, and a 3d soldier in Co. D
'died at Gettysburg Aug 3, 1863'. Did these 3 men fall ill, or perhaps they were
together when they discovered an unexploded shell... The same source contains
the roster and historical sketch of the 205th PV the sketch beginning on pg 636,
the roster ending on page 654, which also contains the entry for your Gfather as
a Pvt in Co. K. Muster in: Aug 29, 64 and discharged with Co. June 2, 1865.
Bates records Co. K as being recruited in Mifflin County, Pa. Bates would be
easy to find in any library here in Penna. You may have to look a little harder
in Idaho. Hope this helps. Terry From: John Kelly (jkelly@argo.net) You wrote: Robert Nale, The roster of the 36th Pa Militia is found in Bates' History of Penna
Volunteers, vol 5. p 1256-1259. The regiment was mustered in July 4, 1863,
discharged Aug. 11, 1863. Your grandfather belonged to Company H.
Interestingly, as I pored through the roster for this militia regt I found a
notation for 1 soldier in Co B. stating: died at Gettysburg Aug 2, 1863, a 2d
soldier in Co. B 'died at Gettysburg Aug 7, 1863, and a 3d soldier in Co. D
'died at Gettysburg Aug 3, 1863'. Did these 3 men fall ill, or perhaps they were
together when they discovered an unexploded shell... The same source contains
the roster and historical sketch of the 205th PV the sketch beginning on pg 636,
the roster ending on page 654, which also contains the entry for your Gfather as
a Pvt in Co. K. Muster in: Aug 29, 64 and discharged with Co. June 2, 1865.
Bates records Co. K as being recruited in Mifflin County, Pa. Bates would be
easy to find in any library here in Penna. You may have to look a little harder
in Idaho. Hope this helps. Terry
Don't mean to butt in, but I will anyway; In researching a cousin's GGF who
served in one of the high-numbered NY regiments, four members of one company,
including the subject of my search, were wounded at the Wilderness in 1864. The
notation next to their names said that they all died at Fredericksburg about a
month later within a few days of each other. The text of the source said
something about the onset of erysipelas about three weeks after the wounds, with
death resulting. The circumstance mentioned in your posting may be similar,
since most of these poor souls died from infection, and not the wound, most
often induced by the lack of sanitation found in ACW hospitals. Erysipelas was
something I heard my grandmother talk about, but I'm unsure of what it is,
except that it involves a high fever. I'd guess that it had to do with
infection though. I would imagine gangrene would operate on a similar
timetable. Regards, Jack Kelly From: SELieberum@mail.biosis. I am interested in the 118th PA and their activities in Gettysburg.
Any information would be helpful. Also about a Samuel Caldwell in that unit.
(In the Movie (sorry) --- the 118th was the unit guarding the Maine boys,
and gave them over to the 20th Maine.) Steve From: Adam Duritza (adam@duritza.agn.net) You wrote: I am interested in the 118th PA and their activities in
Gettysburg. Any information would be helpful. (In the Movie (sorry) --- the
118th was the unit guarding the Maine boys, and gave them over to the 20th
Maine.) Depending on how far you are in your search, this information may or may not
be helpful. It is the best I can get without leaving my computer for right now.
If anything, it may help show you where to get started. 118th Pennsylvania Commander (at GBurg): Maj. Gen. George G. Meade V Corps Maj. Gen. George Sykes Brig. Gen. As far as I can tell, the 118th took place in the fighting in the Peach
Orchard and Wheat Field on July 2nd. From the looks of it, they defended
against elements of Kershaw's Brigade, that is the part of the battle I would
get more info on to find out about the 118th PA. Hope this helps in some way! From: acameron@tcac.com (Alexander Cameron) I am interested in the 118th PA and their activities in
Gettysburg. Any information would be helpful. Also about a Samuel Caldwell in
that unit. (In the Movie (sorry) --- the 118th was the unit guarding the Maine
boys, and gave them over to the 20th Maine.) Steve Steve, Samuel M. Caldwell was a Corpl. in Company D, 118th Penn. He was killed at
Gettysburg on July 2. He was shot through the right side of the head by
Barkesdale's Mississippians during the withdrawal of the 118th from their second
position near the Trostle House. He is buried in the National Cemetery at
Gettysburg in Section D, grave 26. As to the 118th turning over the prisoners
in the movie, that portion is from the book. Page 23 of KILLER ANGELS has a
Capt. Brewer of the 118th turning over the prisoners. I took a quick look at my
roster and did not see a Capt. Brewer in the 118th. I haven't really researched
this but did a quick check and couldn't find a primary source reference to it.
That is not to say that it is not true, I just can't come up with anything that
backs it up. Shaara may have simply invented the character. If it is important
to you, I can look deeper. I have a lot of information on the 118th. I'm glad
to share it with you but we're talking about a bunch of stuff. Could you help
me as to what you are specifically interested in? Bill Cameron From: John Griffin (jgriffin@destiny.esd105.wednet.edu) You wrote: As far as I can tell, the 118th took place in the fighting
in the Peach Orchard and Wheat Field on July 2nd. From the looks of it, they
defended against elements of Kershaw's Brigade, I would think that Semmes Brigade which followed Kershaws Brigade and move
to the left flank of Kershaw (CSA POV) could have engaged the 118th also. John From: acameron@tcac.com (Alexander Cameron) Adam Duritza wrote:
At 09:02 AM 1/24/96 EST, you wrote: As far as I can tell,
the 118th took place in the fighting in the Peach Orchard and Wheat Field on
July 2nd. From the looks of it, they defended against elements of Kershaw's
Brigade I would think that Semmes Brigade which followed Kershaws Brigade and
move to the left flank of Kershaw (CSA POV) could have engaged the 118th also. John Adam and John, The 118th was not at the Peach Orchard. They were on what is know as the "rocky
hill" which is now by the "loop", just north of the Wheatfield.
They were attacked by Kershaw. They retired to a position by the Trostle House
where they were attacked by Barksdale and again withdrew. Early on the morning
of the 3rd, they were moved to a positon on Big Round Top. Bill From: ENordfors@aol.com Greetings: Bill was it not the PA 118th that relieved the 20th ME on BRT so the they
may rest and relax behind Hancock..whom had the safest place on the ridge
(hehe)... Or am I dreaming... BTW I just about have all the books you suggested in your post to me a while
back... I am impressed and I must say most answers can be found somewhere in
those excellant books...many thanks again...your input has..as always...been
invaluable... One last pesky question...I seem to have lost the issue number of the GB
magazine that you published your article on LRT...can you e-mail me with the
number... Many, many thanks... Best... Ed... From: acameron@tcac.com (Alexander Cameron) You Wrote: Greetings: Bill was it not the PA 118th that relieved the 20th ME on BRT so the
they may rest and relax behind Hancock..whom had the safest place on the ridge
(hehe)...Or am I dreaming... Ed, Yes, the 118th went up there first thing on the morning of the 3rd and the
20th came off at 0900 according to most sources. There were other units also
involved but in general, you are correct. I haven't bothered to look it up.
There is a slug of monuments up there on BRT. The article is in vol. 8.
Glad to hear you are enjoying the books. Did you go to the college yet? Bill From: benedict@ns.moran.com (Benedict R Maryniak) For your Excrutiatingly-Small Details about Gburg notebook - Regarding
remarks on the poorly-aimed fire of Wiedrich's Battery at Gburg. It is correct,
but for a reason realized only recently. Captain Michael Wiedrich's Battery I of
the 1st NY Light Arty was raised in the Buffalo area, its core originating with
the pre-war members of the 65th NYS Militia. Most of the men were German and
many had done military service in Europe. I have a picture of them taken just
before they left for the war, and many look like they just arrived from the
Fatherland, wearing helmets featuring spikes out the top. Wiedrich went on to be
Lt Col of the 15th NY Hvy Arty and then worked in Buffalo's city tax office.
Anyway, two members of the Buffalo CWRT - Ray Fuerschbach & Gary Weller -
have re-researched Cyrus K Remington's 1891 history of the battery, correcting &
adding to Remington's work (he was a newspaper reporter, had not served in the
war, and relied a little too much on the failing memories of 1890). Colonel Chas
S Wainwright's "A Diary of Battle" (one terrific book) contains his
comments about Wiedrich's men not being able to aim their pieces at Gburg. Ray F
realized this was because they had just rec'd six three-inch ordnance rifle,
replacing parrotts (awk! pieces of eight!) lost at Chancellorsville. At Gburg,
they were indeed the sourece of wild fire because unfamiliar with their weapons.
During 1864, with Uncle Billy Sherman, there is OR recognition of Battery I's
competence. Ben Maryniak From: Marc73@aol.com Hello Group, Thanks to everyone who answered my question on Weir's Battery C 5th US.
Terry Moyer's response was excellant and was the exact information I was looking
for. I usually study Gettysburg and the Artillery as my 2 favorite CW subjects.
An artilleryman did not want to lose his guns at any cost and I can understand
where Gulian Weir was upset with himself to the point of committing suicide in
1886. The cannoners themselves were originally only issued artillery sabers as
the army wanted the men to protect the guns at all costs. Only officers and NCOs
had pistols at the beginning, but many men acquired pistols on their own. The
gun was like an arm to the artilleryman and to lose one to the enemy was not on
their list of things to happen. Marc Riddell Cooper's Battery B 1st PA Light Artillery From: benedict@ns.moran.com (Benedict R Maryniak) Dave Martin devotes several pages in "Gettysburg, July 1" to the
147th's movements. Basically, the 147th shot it out with the 42nd & 2nd
Mississippi, finally being overrun because the railroad cut (quite deep at that
spot) was at their backs. Martin quotes the version that the Lt Colonel was
wounded and carried away on his horse without relaying Wadsworth's order to fall
back. The Major picked up command without knowing Wadsworeth's orders. Another
version says the 147th NYV fell prey to awful communications during battle.
Facing west on the north side of the railroad cut with Cutler's 56th PA &
76th NYV to their right, they were fighting the CSA brigade led by a nephew of
Jeff Davis. Overlapped by the Johnnies on their right, Cutler's line was ordered
back but the 147th's commander had gone down and his replacement's voice wasn't
recognized by company commanders. The 147th didn't hear "their voice"
calling for a withdrawal and was therefore "left behind" by the 56th &
76th, to be squashed against the railroad cut. The monument says "killed
and wounded here, 212" - at lot of boys who never went back to Oswego
County. Ben Maryniak
From: alexander.cameron@smokeys.com (Alexander Cameron)
Subject: 1st Minnesota
I took a look at the Bachelder letters and there are several detailed
letters from Col. William Colvill, Jr. regarding the charge of the 1st
Minnesota. I know that some of you have a copy of the Bachelder Papers
but if those who do not are interested in these letters, I'll poke them
up for you.
Bill
From: "LMM136@psuvm.psu.edu 'Lisa Mucha'"
Subject: 1st Minn.
From: "Douglas M Macomber"
Subject: Rufus Dawes and the 6th Wisconsin
FROM: Bob Lawrence
The only problem i have with Rufus Dawes is that he was one of the main
subjects of one of the worst books I ever read concerning Gettysburg _Into
the Bloody Railroad Cut_ or something like that.
From: alexander.cameron@smokeys.com (Alexander Cameron)
Subject: First Lieut. Eugene L. Dunham, 44th NY Vols
There is a LOT of material on LRT. I have an extensive LRT bib (20-25
entries) and would be glad to share it with you if you want it. Just
too much trouble to poke it up until I'm sure what you have and what
you might need. However, there is a regimental history of the 44th NY.
It is a period book by Captain Eugene Arus Nash. If you can't find a
copy in your library (you might check the library at Fort Huachuca),
you can get it from Morningside Books (800-648-9710). Your Lieut.
Dunham is mentioned on page 147. The other book I would recommend is
O.O. Norton's THE ATTACK AND DEFENSE OF LITTLE ROUND TOP. You can get
it at Morningside also. You will find that there is more written about
the other regiments in Vincent's Brigade but there is still a LOT of
material on the 44th. As to pictures, see if you can find a copy of THE
U.S. ARMY WAR COLLEGE GUIDE TO THE BATTLE OF GETTYSBURG. It has a lot
of the Brady photos which show LRT right after the battle.
Hope this helps.
Subject: 18th Georgia
Subject: Staanards brigade, 16th Vermont (Col. Veazy)
From: "Douglas M Macomber"
Subject: Regiments at Gettysburg
From: lawrence@appsmiths.com (Robert lawrence
Subject: Significant Untis
From: Bill Mankins
Subject: RE:Regiments at Gettysburg
From: Scott Allen allens@planet.net>
Subject: NJ Units
From: CSVZ07A@prodigy.com ( TERRY MOYER)
Subject: Re: NJ Units
From: "R. Scott Lee"
Subject: 13th Alabama Infantry - Archer's Brigade
From: Pat Ellington
"Does anyone have references or resource information on the 13th
Alabama Infantry Regiment, Archer's Brigade, Heth's Division? I am
only interested in actions at Gettysburg. A relative of mine was Pvt
W.T. Castleberry who is believed to have been the colorbearer. Thanks
for any help."
Bohemian Brigade Bookshop and Publishers
7347 Middlebrook Pike
Knoxville, Tn 37909
423-694-8227
Fax: 423-531-1846
Lt. Col. James Gwyn Army of the Potomac James Barnes' Division
Col. William S. Tilton's
Brigade Casualty Estimates for 118th PA at Gettysburg:
Total Regimental Strength: 233 Total Casualties: 25 Killed: 3 Wounded: 19 Captured / Missing: 3